UMC Leaders Speak on Future of the Denomination

Welcome Back!

Hey there, re:Brand listeners! It’s been a couple of months since we wrapped up season two, and we’ve missed you! We know it’s been a little quiet around here, but we’re back with something special to keep the conversation going before we launch into season three.

We recently sat down with three powerhouse leaders from the United Methodist Church—Rachel Billups, Matt Rawle, and Daniel Ogle—for a conversation that left us inspired and, quite honestly, ready to take some risks in our own leadership. This episode is packed with insights on ministry, leadership, and the ever-changing landscape of the church, and we can’t wait for you to dive into it.

Ministry in the Playground, Not the Library

One of the biggest takeaways from our conversation? Ministry isn’t what it used to be. Gone are the days of simply following a neat, pre-planned path to success. Rachel, Matt, and Daniel all agreed that the challenges post-pandemic and post-disaffiliation have thrown everyone into what Matt calls “the playground.” Instead of living in the well-organized library where everything has a plan, pastors and leaders now find themselves having to make up the rules as they go along.

As Matt put it:

     “We are finding ourselves in the playground where we’re kind of having to make up the rules as we go along.”

It’s not just about executing a step-by-step program anymore—it’s about adaptability, curiosity, and finding creative ways to connect with the people you serve. If you’ve been struggling with how to lead when there’s no blueprint, you’ll definitely want to hear more about this!

Beyond Scarcity: Finding Abundance in New Places

Another major theme? We’ve got to move beyond that scarcity mentality that so many of us are stuck in. In a world where the financial picture of ministry has changed, the old ways of defining abundance no longer apply. The good news? Abundance is still out there—you just have to get creative about where to find it.

Matt Rawle shared this gem during our talk:

     “Just because the regular vehicles through which abundance have been received are becoming deficient, that doesn’t mean there isn’t abundance. We just might have to get creative in finding where the abundance is coming from.”

This was a huge moment in the conversation, especially for those of us who feel stuck. Rachel, Matt, and Daniel all shared stories of unexpected ways they’ve found abundance in their ministries, and it’s a reminder that God’s provision can come from the most surprising places.

Leadership Through Confession, Lament, and Risk

One of the most powerful moments in the episode came when Rachel Billups opened up about the immense personal and professional challenges she’s faced over the past few years. From leading through a failed capital campaign to the pandemic, natural disasters, and personal family struggles, she didn’t hold back. Her vulnerability struck a chord with all of us and reminded us of the importance of lament and confession in leadership.

     “If we are going to thrive in the hard, we’ve got to tell ourselves the truth about ourselves.”

We’re not sugar-coating things here—ministry has been hard. Leadership has been hard. But acknowledging the struggle is the first step toward healing and moving forward. And as the group discussed, it’s not just about lamenting. It’s about recognizing that through all the challenges, there’s also been provision, time and time again. There’s a beautiful intersection between the pain and the grace we experience, and this episode dives deep into how to lead with that understanding.

Taking Risks: The Leadership Muscle We Need to Flex

If there’s one thing we hope you take away from this conversation, it’s the importance of risk in ministry. Sure, it’s scary, and yes, failure might be part of the process. But as Matt Rawle pointed out, inactivity can sometimes be riskier than stepping out in faith.

     “We falsely assume that activity is risky without considering inactivity being riskier.”

This conversation is a reminder that leadership in today’s church isn’t about playing it safe—it’s about trusting that God is moving and that there’s something powerful waiting on the other side of risk. The episode is full of stories about taking big leaps, learning from failure, and finding strength in the connections we build along the way.

We could go on and on about everything that was covered, but you really need to hear it for yourself! Whether you’re leading a church, serving in your community, or just trying to navigate your own faith journey, this conversation will leave you encouraged and ready to embrace the challenges ahead.

We’ll be back soon with season three, but in the meantime, let’s keep the conversation going. What risks are you taking in your ministry or leadership? How are you finding abundance in unexpected places? Let us know in the comments below, and don’t forget to share this episode with a friend!

Stay connected, stay curious, and keep reimagining ministry with us.

– Ben & Tim